IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

4 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Cheap cartridges for developers and gamers
Zerosquare
post 1 Oct 2010, 20:43
Post #41


Rick dangerous
***

Group: Administrators
Posts: 2.111
Joined: 4-1 06
Member No.: 30



CITATION(Daniele @ 1 Oct 2010, 21:28) *
-When you can order?
Soon wink.gif
Before the end of the year, we hope smile.gif

CITATION(Daniele @ 1 Oct 2010, 21:28) *
-With the cartridge and 'THE INSTALLATION including the driver?
The software will be downloadable on our web site.


--------------------
« Mon PC on dirait un Amiga tellement c'est instable » – GT Turbo
« Soit A un niveau d'absurdité, il existe un post N tel que... » – Azrael et al., 2006
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tursi
post 2 Oct 2010, 01:40
Post #42


Great giana sister
*

Group: Members
Posts: 76
Joined: 2-5 06
From: SFO
Member No.: 45



Ah, that's sooner than I expected.

Anyway, any chance you guys can call off the hounds? I've been really careful about not flooding your announcement thread at AtariAge with crap or dragging in people looking to flamewar, why is there so much Jagware BS in the Skunkboard thread there? Particularly SH3, and I don't know if Tyrant is a part of your group or not, but it's getting old.

I don't believe I've ever spoken a bad word about Jagware in any public forum, despite the number of bad things said about me by certain of your members at forums such as Yaronet, so this treatment is particularly perplexing.

The only reasonable thought I had is the timing between our announcement and yours. I'm sorry that the timing worked out as such, but since there's not much communication about secret projects, you can't expect the rest of the world to come to a halt just because you make an announcement. If you wanted to let me know even two months ago then it would have been early enough to stop things. It takes more time to arrange things when there's a middleman added.

On the plus side, this is definately the last Skunkboard run, so you guys can own the community again for a while. The parts to build them are just getting too difficult to find and we aren't really enthused about redesigning it.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tyrant
post 2 Oct 2010, 02:04
Post #43


Great giana sister
*

Group: Members
Posts: 73
Joined: 17-8 06
From: UK
Member No.: 77



QUOTE (Tursi @ 2 Oct 2010, 01:40) *
Anyway, any chance you guys can call off the hounds?

I think you're referring to me, and as I said on AA I'm nobody's (nobodies?) hound.

Still, sorry for making a mess of your thread over there, I only wanted to post one brief comment but then got dragged into saying more by certain other people. I'll try not to let it happen again.


--------------------
Tyr of the Arcana
Aka Tyrant
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cyrano Jones
post 2 Oct 2010, 07:48
Post #44


formerly known as Mr Morden
*

Group: Members
Posts: 228
Joined: 25-6 09
Member No.: 231



QUOTE (Tursi @ 2 Oct 2010, 02:40) *
Anyway, any chance you guys can call off the hounds?


If you'd like me to stop saying how much I love my Skunk for development, I'll be happy to oblige smile.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Fadest
post 2 Oct 2010, 07:52
Post #45


Super sprint
**

Group: Level1
Posts: 407
Joined: 1-2 06
From: Disconnected...
Member No.: 32



CITATION(Tursi @ 2 Oct 2010, 02:40) *
I don't believe I've ever spoken a bad word about Jagware in any public forum, despite the number of bad things said about me by certain of your members at forums such as Yaronet, so this treatment is particularly perplexing.

I didn't remember reading something like this on Yaronet ???
Especiallu, numerous time. Usually, the Skunk is well appreciated here, even if only a few of Yaronet users have one (no official communication done here, but you are welcome to post in english if you want, like superfighter team, matashen, atari owl and some other s)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sh3-rg
post 2 Oct 2010, 08:23
Post #46


Super sprint
**

Group: Members
Posts: 348
Joined: 3-6 09
From: bolton, england
Member No.: 227



QUOTE (Tursi @ 2 Oct 2010, 01:40) *
Particularly SH3


Sorry? Tursi, where have I said anything agasinst the Skunk in Sauron's skunk III thread or any other? I've only said POSITIVE things! I'm a HUGE fan of the skunk and have been since the day I got my first one.

A new skunk run is just what the Jaguar needs to stop the huge profiteering from collectors as proper developers get increasingly desperate to get their hands on the only realistic development tool for the Jaguar.

..

I told viMaster to sling his hook after he made that 'Reboot propaganda' post - nothing to do with you or your skunkboard. If you feel the need to tell anyone anything, how about you ask him to think twice before popping up at AA after months of inactivity only to troll about & stir up trouble where is isn't needed? I only posted positive comments in that thread & directed the talk of the skunk board form the Jagware cart thread to it before Mr. Master showed up with his snide comment.

So please don't come here pointing your finger at me without any good reason... and I'm not saying this in a bitchy or arrogant way, I'm asking you politely. I don't know what or if you indeed do have anything against me, but if you have a specific concern you can come direct to me & you'll find me approachable and easy going and quite unlike the picture that is painted by a couple of increasingly discredited ex-JS2 moderators.

QUOTE (Tursi @ 2 Oct 2010, 01:40) *
I don't believe I've ever spoken a bad word about Jagware in any public forum


I don't think I've ever spoken a bad word about you or the skunkboard in any forum - I really don't see whay you have come over here to single me out. You are wrong if you think any of us have anything against you or the skunk. In fact, there's probably nobody out there who puts it to as much legal use as we do.

If you want some sound advice, consider this: maybe tell goatdan to ease off a little, he's kind of digging himself a hole of sorts. Everyone knows what the skunk does & doesn't do and if we're honest we'll admit that there are probably less than 30 or so of us developers using it for what it was truly intended. If he really wants to continue down that road of setting a shining example & commenting about his IGDA links & ties to the industry, he should seriously consider funding a development tool that will not run any existing commercial software at all full stop... either that or just keep it sensible in there & not get carried away in the flames.

QUOTE (Tursi @ 2 Oct 2010, 01:40) *
The only reasonable thought I had is the timing between our announcement and yours. I'm sorry that the timing worked out as such, but since there's not much communication about secret projects, you can't expect the rest of the world to come to a halt just because you make an announcement. If you wanted to let me know even two months ago then it would have been early enough to stop things. It takes more time to arrange things when there's a middleman added.


Trusi, the Jagware cart is for putting out our games. It's not practical to use it for development - it has nowhere near the usability of the skunkboard as a development device. I can't see any reason why people would not buy the skunkboard, I mean, knowing Jaguar collectors as we do, they'll just have to own one to put on the shelf & look at for a start.

Nobody in any of the Jagware groups wants the skunkboard run stopped - that's miles away from what we feel. Nobody thinks that, nobody has said that. SCPCD has only done what kskunk said someone should do last year - to design a car that is really cheap & will let devs put their games out for a lot less than has been the case in the past.

The skunk III & the jagware flash cart are both technically aimed at developers - but yours is for design, and Jagware's is for production.

There should be no problem & no need for anyone to have said anything 2 months or any other time frame ago.

QUOTE (Tursi @ 2 Oct 2010, 01:40) *
On the plus side, this is definately the last Skunkboard run, so you guys can own the community again for a while.


Nobody wants to 'own' communities... that's just weird.

QUOTE (Tursi @ 2 Oct 2010, 01:40) *
The parts to build them are just getting too difficult to find and we aren't really enthused about redesigning it.


Exactly why we didn't ever expect to see another skunkboard as some of the parts have been obsoleted (which was discovered back when the Jagware cart was being designed & parts researched).


--------------------
Would you Push The Button?
"Do not trust people who offer incense" - zerosquare offering some important advice via google translate
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Matmook
post 2 Oct 2010, 14:05
Post #47


Super sprint
**

Group: Members
Posts: 651
Joined: 18-3 08
From: Angers (à côté)
Member No.: 194



I want both device !!!!
- SkunkIII for coding/testing (BJL is nice... but just nice biggrin.gif )
- Jagware Flash Card for testing /releasing laugh.gif


--------------------
Matmook
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sh3-rg
post 2 Oct 2010, 16:52
Post #48


Super sprint
**

Group: Members
Posts: 348
Joined: 3-6 09
From: bolton, england
Member No.: 227



QUOTE (Matmook @ 2 Oct 2010, 14:05) *
I want both device !!!!
- SkunkIII for coding/testing (BJL is nice... but just nice biggrin.gif )
- Jagware Flash Card for testing /releasing laugh.gif


Exactly, they are the perfect partners for any proper developer. The only people who would not benefit from both devices being out there would be those who do not develop & just want to run ROMs. Well who cares about those people? They don't bring anything to the scene, they just take, so not even worth considering. I can't imagine they'd have a hell of a lot of fun fiddling about with a Jagware flash cart for those purposes anyway, as it's hardly going to be convenient compared to a fully-featured USB device like the skunk.


--------------------
Would you Push The Button?
"Do not trust people who offer incense" - zerosquare offering some important advice via google translate
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Zerosquare
post 2 Oct 2010, 17:42
Post #49


Rick dangerous
***

Group: Administrators
Posts: 2.111
Joined: 4-1 06
Member No.: 30



I'll probably end up repeating what others have said, but anyways...

CITATION(Tursi @ 2 Oct 2010, 02:40) *
I don't believe I've ever spoken a bad word about Jagware in any public forum, despite the number of bad things said about me by certain of your members at forums such as Yaronet, so this treatment is particularly perplexing.
Which members, and which posts ? I don't believe any Jagware member has a problem with you, and I don't remember anything derogatory said about you either. If you have something specific in mind, please elaborate, and we'll try to sort it out.

CITATION(Tursi @ 2 Oct 2010, 02:40) *
you can't expect the rest of the world to come to a halt just because you make an announcement. If you wanted to let me know even two months ago then it would have been early enough to stop things.
But nobody wants, or even expects, you to stop making the Skunkboards. A lot of Jagware developers have one or several of them and find them very useful (I know that at least Fadest, SebRmv and Reboot use them for developing their games).

We don't intend our flash cart to compete with your Skunkboard. They're not made for the same use, and both have their place. While I can't tell people that you can't use our Flash cart for development or testing stuff, I've tried to make it clear it's not the primary use, and that a Skunkboard is a better choice in this case.

Regarding the timing, yes, it's unfortunate. We didn't know, and I honestly wasn't thinking you'd do a third run of Skunkboards, as your request for someone to fund it was a while ago, and nobody had responded (at least not publicly).

The only thing that disturbed me was that the block list wasn't public, but you explained why it is so on AtariAge. I still think that asking your game to be banned and refusing to admit it publicly is a pretty coward behavior, but if you have an agreement with those developers, the choice is not yours to make and I understand that. And I certainly won't blame you for wanting to avoid flamewars (believe me, I found myself trapped in enough of them back when we started discussing the JagCF).

I'll say it once more : I don't have any problem with you or the Skunkboard smile.gif


--------------------
« Mon PC on dirait un Amiga tellement c'est instable » – GT Turbo
« Soit A un niveau d'absurdité, il existe un post N tel que... » – Azrael et al., 2006
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tursi
post 2 Oct 2010, 20:33
Post #50


Great giana sister
*

Group: Members
Posts: 76
Joined: 2-5 06
From: SFO
Member No.: 45



Thanks for the replies, even the ones that are a little angry.

First, it's the bickering in general that annoys me, I'm not accusing people of flaming the skunkboard (although the jab about EEPROMs, whichever thread that was in, was annoying. I'm not aware of any title that fails to run for lack of EEPROM so that's not exactly a compatibility issue). I've already gotten apologies from viMaster, SH3, for his lashing out in the thread, and I've already asked Dan to back down a bit too. You guys are not the only ones I wrote to yesterday.

There's simply a lot of condescending comments, unnecessary off-topic cheerleading, all the crap that we used to see in the bad old days, and I was trying to keep it out of there. You can make a subtle attack that's too borderline for an outsider to recognize, and then say "What? I didn't say anything!", but that's just childish. I'm too busy to deal with it, so I was trying to stop BOTH sides before it escalated. I don't know Sauron's relationship to you guys, but he's up there, too, I just assumed that he was a cheerleader and not a member, so I didn't mention him here.

As for the stuff posted at Yaronet - there's nothing to sort out. That was how many years ago? I doubt I could even find it now - but there was plenty of sneering about the Skunkboard being a piracy device (until someone pointed out it can't dump cartridges when it resides in the cartridge slot), and plenty of jeering about how the shit was going to hit the fan as soon as people started trying to use it to play Battlesphere. And lots, and lots of complaining because I was "one of them" (a JS2 user) and that's why I wasn't getting in trouble for making it in the first place. This was after the first release announcement, so it was ages ago.

When I came onto the scene, you guys didn't know me, but neither did "they" (and the us-vs-them mentality has always annoyed me). I literally spent months negotiating the release behind the scenes, and THAT is why I didn't get in trouble for making Skunkboard in the first place.

You guys know what the damned block list is - /I'm/ just not allowed to SAY. So it really pisses me off to see it turned into another copy of the same damned argument that the community keeps dragging up. "Stop telling me not to copy games!". In this case nobody was even arguing the other side! You guys didn't cause all of it, but some of you did participate. And Tyrant, it's not all about you - you addressed the parts I meant for you and the parts that confuse you do so because they were not. I was satisfied with your apology yesterday (I have not gone back yet today, so I hope it hasn't derailed further - I left your post as the last one because it seemed the best place to pause.)

SH3, you said some things that specifically set viMaster off. He apologized to me after my post, but while I understand your response, had his barb gone un-replied to, that would have been the end of it. As for finger pointing, I have gone and pointed my finger at everyone I felt was involved, but I don't have a private way to get to you guys (you are free to delete these posts when we are done if you'd rather not keep them public, and they are kind of in the wrong thread.).

Cyrano, you are trying to be funny, and I appreciate that, but the fact is that when you slip a barb in with the compliment, no matter how small, it taints the whole thing. You get someone mad and the compliment is meaningless. Choose your words carefully and if you are sincere, separate the sincerity from any of the political games. It's really easy in English to change the tone of a message by accident in text. I know I screw it up all the time. wink.gif

Let me add that none of you here have been on my bad list in the past. I haven't had a problem with you guys in past releases, except for annoyance that some people associated with Jagware feel to need to put subtle attacks in too many of their things (SH3 - your user logo at AA is a clear slap in the face at Gorf or whoever else was doing that dumb POWA thing - that's the sort of thing I am talking about. He's not even there to see it but you carry on the little battle anyway). It makes it look like you are looking for a fight. To be fair, I also see people from other camps doing this from time to time, and that also annoys me. When it happens around my work, I try to put a stop to it (and elsewhere I just don't read it at all, usually).

At any rate, you know my stance, and I appreciate hearing your side of it. I'll go back to AA and do my best to ignore any further issues in that thread, except another call for peace if need be. I'd appreciate if everyone would help by showing restraint themselves.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sh3-rg
post 3 Oct 2010, 01:22
Post #51


Super sprint
**

Group: Members
Posts: 348
Joined: 3-6 09
From: bolton, england
Member No.: 227



There is a hell of a lot of off-topic stuff in that & many other threads on AA and most other forums. That's just the way things are, conversations drift & often get chatty and off-topic or worse - suffer in-jokes or deliberate derail attempts. It's really annoying when the thread is regarding your own prods, I know, I've had it happen to my own.

Tursi, I appreciate you taking the time to come back here & post your follow-up. I suppose my posts are the ones you found angry, I'm genuinely sorry for that - my enthusiasm for this stuff often comes out a bit excited and gnarly & as I've stated many times, we wouldn't even be on the Jaguar without the skunkboard & are all well aware of the great contribution both yourself & kskunk have made to the Jaguar community. We pretty much all know the difficulties in making things happen for the Jaguar & have a lot of time for you guys & the effort you made in creating the skunk & skunk II and making the things we do that much simpler to achieve. Reading that you had to endure months of negotiations to make it happen only bolsters my respect for you both, I doubt I would have had the patience tbh.

Nobody else has commented on my AA avatar, certainly nobody has complained at AA or it would have been mentioned. I've taken quite a lot more serious beatings from Gorf in PM & on sites where I have no account to defend myself compared to a pun in an avatar. I do have serious concerns about the things he says & the people he uses as his source of information but as a gesture of good faith to you personally I'll remove it asap and do my best to give that kind of stuff the elbow.

kevin


--------------------
Would you Push The Button?
"Do not trust people who offer incense" - zerosquare offering some important advice via google translate
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cyrano Jones
post 3 Oct 2010, 03:21
Post #52


formerly known as Mr Morden
*

Group: Members
Posts: 228
Joined: 25-6 09
Member No.: 231



QUOTE (Tursi @ 2 Oct 2010, 21:33) *
First, it's the bickering in general that annoys me, I'm not accusing people of flaming the skunkboard (although the jab about EEPROMs, whichever thread that was in, was annoying. I'm not aware of any title that fails to run for lack of EEPROM so that's not exactly a compatibility issue).


No barb, or negativity intented. I love my skunk. You *know* that.

BTW - Raiden fails (I believe, after a brief bit of debugging) due to the no EEPROM, so there is at least one. Not an issue, I've got 2 carts of it smile.gif

[Edited for spelling]
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tursi
post 3 Oct 2010, 08:08
Post #53


Great giana sister
*

Group: Members
Posts: 76
Joined: 2-5 06
From: SFO
Member No.: 45



Thanks, SH3.

QUOTE (sh3-rg @ 2 Oct 2010, 16:22) *
Nobody else has commented on my AA avatar, certainly nobody has complained at AA or it would have been mentioned. I've taken quite a lot more serious beatings from Gorf in PM & on sites where I have no account to defend myself compared to a pun in an avatar. I do have serious concerns about the things he says & the people he uses as his source of information but as a gesture of good faith to you personally I'll remove it asap and do my best to give that kind of stuff the elbow.


Yeah, but dude, Gorf is all but removed from the community these days. The icon was mentioned by others in chat, that much I know, since it made me take a closer look and realize that it was actually a NEW icon with the new board in it. Thanks for making the good gesture and changing it, though. I think that's just a good move for the community concept, and gives me hope that one day there will be one. wink.gif

Cyrano - are you sure it's the lack of an eeprom that breaks Raiden? All official carts are supposed to be able to tolerate the failure of the eeprom. I do seem to remember some discussion of Raiden having issues but I never actually had time to investigate it in depth. If you did some research to prove it I might be able to use your research to look at the issue.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cyrano Jones
post 3 Oct 2010, 08:55
Post #54


formerly known as Mr Morden
*

Group: Members
Posts: 228
Joined: 25-6 09
Member No.: 231



QUOTE (Tursi @ 3 Oct 2010, 09:08) *
Cyrano - are you sure it's the lack of an eeprom that breaks Raiden? All official carts are supposed to be able to tolerate the failure of the eeprom. I do seem to remember some discussion of Raiden having issues but I never actually had time to investigate it in depth. If you did some research to prove it I might be able to use your research to look at the issue.


I'm pretty sure it is, I was going to fix it myself but it's in a packed file in the ROM and I lost the will to live while looking at it smile.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tursi
post 3 Oct 2010, 22:14
Post #55


Great giana sister
*

Group: Members
Posts: 76
Joined: 2-5 06
From: SFO
Member No.: 45



QUOTE
I'm pretty sure it is, I was going to fix it myself but it's in a packed file in the ROM and I lost the will to live while looking at it


hehe. I took a quick look today, and I don't think I agree. There seems to be some sort of dependency on the Jaguar BIOS.

If you run it up in Virtual Jaguar, it will boot if the Jag BIOS runs, but hang on a black screen if you jump directly to it. No Skunkboard involved here. I added debug to the EEPROM system and Raiden doesn't touch the EEPROM before the Atari title screen comes up. Since the EEPROM emulation is available in both cases and the debug suggests the game doesn't access it before the first screen, I don't think that's the cause of the incompatibility with Skunkboard. There's something that the BIOS sets that the game is relying on. I'll see if I can figure it out, it might explain some of the BJL apps that fail on Skunkboard too...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tursi
post 3 Oct 2010, 23:55
Post #56


Great giana sister
*

Group: Members
Posts: 76
Joined: 2-5 06
From: SFO
Member No.: 45



Raiden fails on Skunkboard because it never sets the VI register, so vertical interrupts are never generated. Skunkboard sets the register to maximum value to ensure unexpected interrupts are not generated. When it's set, Raiden works just fine.

This is probably the case with some homebrew that fails too.

(editted) I have rolled back the change in the v3 BIOS.. setting the VI register in the Skunkboard startup breaks compatibility with many homebrews that used to work (not completely clear why, probably due to a pending interrupt firing as soon as its enabled). So titles with this problem need to be fixed in the title itself.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Stone
post 6 Oct 2010, 21:54
Post #57





Group: Members
Posts: 19
Joined: 5-10 10
From: Herts, UK
Member No.: 281



Hello all, and may I include in my first post here an apology for upsetting Tursi on AA smile.gif Not my intention.

Most of you have 'met' me before. When I was first scene-active in 2001 or so I was still at school. Now I have an electronics degree, a gf of 5+ years, a house and a job smile.gif I still have a soft spot for the Jag even after all this time, and I seem still to retain chunks of the dev manual no matter how hard I try so it looks like you're stuck with me laugh.gif

I've mainly joined here as it seems to be an oasis of technical detail (with a hardware slant too, yay!) and I'm considering a couple of projects along the lines of what I know best. I don't like releasing details of what I'm thinking until I'm in a position to deliver but you'll probably find me asking cryptic questions from time to time and then lurking some more...

So, hi to those who know me, hello to those who don't and yah boo sucks to the dicks who have to spoil it for everyone biggrin.gif

Stone
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Zerosquare
post 7 Oct 2010, 17:43
Post #58


Rick dangerous
***

Group: Administrators
Posts: 2.111
Joined: 4-1 06
Member No.: 30



Welcome Stone wink.gif


--------------------
« Mon PC on dirait un Amiga tellement c'est instable » – GT Turbo
« Soit A un niveau d'absurdité, il existe un post N tel que... » – Azrael et al., 2006
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tyrant
post 9 Oct 2010, 08:21
Post #59


Great giana sister
*

Group: Members
Posts: 73
Joined: 17-8 06
From: UK
Member No.: 77



QUOTE (Stone @ 6 Oct 2010, 21:54) *
So, hi to those who know me, hello to those who don't and yah boo sucks to the dicks who have to spoil it for everyone biggrin.gif

Hiya, nice to see you joining up to this little oasis. I completely agree on your evaluation of it btw, it's a brilliant site, largely forgotten by the masses, and full of good stuff. Just a shame so much is in French, but that's mostly the old stuff.


--------------------
Tyr of the Arcana
Aka Tyrant
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Stone
post 9 Oct 2010, 10:24
Post #60





Group: Members
Posts: 19
Joined: 5-10 10
From: Herts, UK
Member No.: 281



I still remember enough French from school to get by smile.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

4 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 >
Fast ReplyReply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 25-10-2014 / 02:22