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Fredifredo

Le UART bug ...

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GT Turbo    3
cts :


Bah, c'est le bug connu non ?





C'est une bonne question, j'ai un doute, enfin dans tous les cas de figure, j'ai juste posté cela car je trouvais cela interressant, après de toute façon SCPCD nous a règler le problème......Alors perdre du temps la dessus, moi ce que j'en dis....







GT ;)

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GT Turbo    3
SCPCD :


C'est clair que de toute facon le probleme est resolu ;)





SCPCD and Jag CF Powa !!!! ;)





GT En réseau !! :P

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Fredifredo    0

Non c'est pas pareil !

 

 

 

Le problèmes est contourné ! et l'autre machin truc il aura toujours sa petite fierté en disant que lui seul a réussi et que pour faire un réseau non bugué la seule solution aura été de faire autrement !

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Azrael    0

Je suis d'accord en partie avec Fredifredo, le mieux eut été de corriger ce bug (facile à dire car c'est pas moi qui corrige cette partie). Je pense qu'il serait interressant quand GT aura ses deux jag qu'il fasse un petit essai de jag en réseau pour faire un code solide. Ok, ça ne servira pas dans notre cas, mais au moins être à l'origine d'un code propre peu d'une part être d'une utilité pour nos codes réseaux et d'autre part ce serait une p....n de fierté de le sortir !

 

 

 

PS : je sais pas si ce que j'ai écrit est compréhensible, j'ai trop peur de me relire.

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GT Turbo    3
Azrael :


Je suis d'accord en partie avec Fredifredo, le mieux eut été de corriger ce bug (facile à dire car c'est pas moi qui corrige cette partie). Je pense qu'il serait interressant quand GT aura ses deux jag qu'il fasse un petit essai de jag en réseau pour faire un code solide. Ok, ça ne servira pas dans notre cas, mais au moins être à l'origine d'un code propre peu d'une part être d'une utilité pour nos codes réseaux et d'autre part ce serait une p....n de fierté de le sortir !



PS : je sais pas si ce que j'ai écrit est compréhensible, j'ai trop peur de me relire.





C'est compréhensible pas de panique. Ensuite je comprends votre motivation, je suis prèt a faire les tests effectivement, mais je les ferais quand tous les autres projets en cours m'auront trop pris la tete, car se fixer que la dessus c'est une perte de temps a écrire un code qu'on aura très très peu de chance d'utiliser.



Entre nous sa fierté il peut la garder, cette fierté ne peut exister que grace aux autres, si personne ne lui accordait autant d'importance, il reviendrait pas avec son 'bug' !!, se reposer juste sur une chose on a vite fait de tomber.......



GT ;)

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..could anyone give a short english recapitulation of what you people have come up with so far? ...Im just qurious... And preferable if anyone tested it in real life with code (and not just theory.... because in theory I have a good understanding of what causes the error.. but my experience shows that theory & practise dont realy mix).

 

Thanx!

/Sym

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GT Turbo    3
..could anyone give a short english recapitulation of what you people have come up with so far? ...Im just qurious... And preferable if anyone tested it in real life with code (and not just theory.... because in theory I have a good understanding of what causes the error.. but my experience shows that theory & practise dont realy mix).

 

Thanx!

/Sym

 

I haven't tested in real life even in theory, perhaps someone else like SCPCD or Zerosquare.

 

 

 

GT ;)

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Short about some uart related problems i know of:

 

 

Spock have been sitting quite some time with doom tryig to get the "$80 before packet" thing to work... but i think he gave up on that.. since something that simple did not work properly with the doom code... even though it should have worked! other parts of the doom code then became unstable and crashed.. ????!!!! (insert a steel bar into a card-house and expect it to be more robust?)..

So I think he agreed to start from scratch with the net code, not try to build it via doom.. (or that is what i would suggest to do..).

 

Personally i have 2 jaguars communicating via rs232 using the uart IRQ!!...

BUT!... as soon as there is an error in the transmission the uart IRQ hangs!... and it is impossible to recover it, except via a reset/poweroff... :(

If there are 1object on screen it works nice... 2 or 3 then the hang occures more often... totally unreliable...

 

I only use the 68K irq... perhapps i need to go into a gpu&dsp combination.. (my plan al long anyhow).

 

 

One thing i know though, is that the programmes that use the uart and get something out of it, use "manual polling" and not the irq. ....(cf Doom, aircars... ...not BS, they use either gpu or dsp... that im sure of).

 

Either there are some stupid problems in my IRQ handler (especially when an error occures) or the irq is unstable.... (or i would be able to clear error & reset it right?)...

 

Its tiresom to debug this sh-t since it takes two trail-n-error uploads each time...

And it was almost a year since I did any work on it... and it take allot of time, time i would rather "waste" on something else... (polygon).

 

Anyone else have any experience?

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stabylo    0

well, just a stupid question... some of us have an alpine... some have BS roms... or can make an image of them...

so, why not disassemble the receiving code, post it and see how it looks?

does anyone has started any work in that direction, or is it just a stupid idea?

do we lack disassembling tools?

does the cartidge encryption makes it a harder task? :huh:

 

(i'm sorry i can't access JS2 forums yet, so I didn't checked available information there, and well... this 10 posts barreer is somehow getting on my nerves... :rolleyes: )

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GT Turbo    3
well, just a stupid question... some of us have an alpine... some have BS roms... or can make an image of them...

so, why not disassemble the receiving code, post it and see how it looks?

does anyone has started any work in that direction, or is it just a stupid idea?

do we lack disassembling tools?

does the cartidge encryption makes it a harder task? :huh:

 

(i'm sorry i can't access JS2 forums yet, so I didn't checked available information there, and well... this 10 posts barreer is somehow getting on my nerves... :rolleyes: )

 

There is no stupid question here Stabylo ;) I haven't BS Cartridges or rom, and you know what ? I haven't think to this idea before you give it :)

 

 

GT :poulpe:

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Zerosquare    10
well, just a stupid question... some of us have an alpine... some have BS roms... or can make an image of them...

so, why not disassemble the receiving code, post it and see how it looks?

does anyone has started any work in that direction, or is it just a stupid idea?

Not a stupid idea, but certain people would get very angry with us, and it might even be illegal. Besides, I think we have the abilities to figure it out ourselves without having to copy someone else's code. :)

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Azrael    0
it might even be illegal.

Reverse engineering is not illegal since you don't display it to the world. Giving the brute source-code is illegal, but you can give the principle of how to avoid the bug and produce the corresponding code. :)

 

Of course it is better to solve it by yourself :P

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Zerosquare    10
Reverse engineering is not illegal since you don't display it to the world.
I'm not so sure about that with the side-effects and loopholes of the DMCA law in the United States. Several small companies got sued by their bigger competitors.

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SebRmv    2

bon, avant de prouver que c'est du reverse-engineering ...

mais c'est peut être plus dur à faire que de réfléchir "from scratch"

et puis non, c'est pas dans l'esprit

en plus, on s'en fout, vu qu'on aura la JagCF :wub: avec un UART sans bug

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Like AMD rev.engin. Intel.. and se what happened to AMD, they got sued & died did they not? .... =) *retorical question, dont answer ;)*

There are legal ways to get around the law and avoid a lawsuit. (Haha... that sentence sums up the stupidity in legalsystems =) ..anyhow..

 

>but certain people would get very angry with us

That is true... since his "life work" would be public domain, every game from there on would have that feature, and that "unique" feature of their game would be lost...

I think this might be a major contributor as to why the "trick" of how to get it to work hasn't been revealed yet . That and the fact that there is no real UG-game out there that is "there yet"... meaning that perhapps he would help out with that part if we had a full flagged, good game out there, soon to be released...

 

BUT point beeing that There seem to be some horrible timing issues with it, and IF you ignore these from the beginning, and build your game dissregarding them, I would assume that if you later learned how to get the UART working (by some kind person) you would have to rebuild the hole code!...

 

So I mean if the will to help was there, atleast general hints on what Not to do, would be given to the public.. or atleast to the UG coders..

So I would assume theory1 holds untill prooven wrong (basic scientific prinsiple ;)

 

>stabylo

No the cart encryption is not a problem as such.. (since the data on the cart is not encrypted).

But dissasembling any program is no easy task.. and we can be sertain that the data is packed to save space, which is a much bigger problem for a dissasembler. in worst case you need to run the dissassembler code of the orignal program to get it working properly.. which means hours of tracing through the code on the cart.. (avouding hangs)...

 

Added to the difficulty is the fact that the jaguar has 3 different processors... with atleast 2 different languages... (3 if you are harsh). making a dissass even more difficult.

 

Im not saying itis impossible Im just saying its not realy easy!... which means that we would better spend time on developing our own code... or atleast start with the higher protocalls.

Or instead of the obsession of hacking the code, spend time on writing an actuall game...

 

Though I know everyone loves a challange ;)

 

cheers

/Sym

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stabylo    0

Well I just mentionned this possibility because I'm quite used to reverse engeneering (I did it for Indeo 3.2 video compression, which is more complicated than Cinepak). I now know that it's not illegal (at least here in France), because technology that relies on the secret of its internals can't be patented, as te process would be made public if it was patented (patent documents are always publicly available).

 

You're right, compression and multi language are factors that harden the task, but my experience in reverse engeneering is that it's quite usefull when you already has many hours of searching around your problem. Then it's not hard to look at the code for a specific sequence that identifies for sure any code related to your problem. I mean that's the second blade of the knife. Doesn't replace the real work :)

 

So, I'm not saying we have to start disassembling BS right now, just think about how this could help. Indeed if TB is ready to help a real project in need for his knowledge, then we shouldn't worry about it.

 

I just thought it would be bad that unsolved technical issues prevent some creative idea to be developed but sure we first need a game concept that would require networking, then think about how we can do it.

 

I didn't know that JagCF is to implement a new networking unit (shame on me!), that's good news to me! SPCD is a real master! :hug:

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SebRmv    2

I confirm Stabylo is a real master at disassembling code :D and it is not a bad idea however to try to find the bug fix for the UART. I understood that lots of people would be more than happy if someone manages to recompile Doom with the UART bug fixed. But once again, maybe it is possible in this case to use the JagCF UART instead.

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TXG/MNX    0

serial port on jagcf.

 

This is something nice to have so we have a bug-free serial port, but I did buy all these jaglink, jaglink2 and catboxes and scatboxes and they will become useless :angry: I think the bug of the atari jaguar needs to be solved aswell...

 

Aircars has also a pretty good networking protocol, the best protocol has Battlesphere...

 

Let's continue the search for the jaguar uart fix...

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Guest JagChris   
Guest JagChris

If you guys, a whole community of programmers, cannot figure out what one man did on his own in a relatively short time and have to resort to downloading illegal ROMS, Disassembling and stealing his hard work because you guys aren't good enough to figure it out on your own then shame on all of you.

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SCPCD    0
If you guys, a whole community of programmers, cannot figure out what one man did on his own in a relatively short time and have to resort to downloading illegal ROMS, Disassembling and stealing his hard work because you guys aren't good enough to figure it out on your own then shame on all of you.

Hi !

 

Sorry about that, but I think that there is a misunderstanding.

All things said before was only a "and if we made this" and a global information about law of reverse engineering and not a real temptation to reverse engineering BS or AirCars for exemple to copy the serial protocol of these games.

 

We prefere all to find and create our own serial protocol to correct the Jaguar UART bug, but we haven't yet the time to search about that.

So that's why we said just crazy idea ;)

 

Regards,

SCPCD.

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GT Turbo    3
If you guys, a whole community of programmers, cannot figure out what one man did on his own in a relatively short time and have to resort to downloading illegal ROMS, Disassembling and stealing his hard work because you guys aren't good enough to figure it out on your own then shame on all of you.

 

You must know something, we will do that if we have enough time, now we can't loose time on working on a thing that nobody here will use, because the JagCF can do that without any errors.

 

Better writing games as loosing time for something old, see the future !!

 

 

 

 

GT Turbo :)

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shame on all of you.

 

..desiding if I'm to be offended by that post or not... but... nahh... I dont take it personal since I dont have any reason to.

 

I just what to point out that there is NOTHING special about an old RS485 protical from early 80ies and i know of atleast a dusin people here that would be able to do that IF they had the chanse (equippment) and took the time to do it...

But instead Im playing New cd games for the jag.. released by coders here.... and that is actually better than having a protocall in my hand..

 

 

But I must agree that we should not abandon the idea of investigating the bug, nor the protocall solution just because there will be a new HW that has better UART.... we still need a good protocall even if the HW is "error free" to handel setup of multiplayers and sending the data around... (this is actually a verry simple problem if you start to think about it, and you dont need 10years to finish it!).

 

And also I would like people not owning a JagCF to be able to play future net games.. and hence it would have to work on a "standard jaguar UART device"...

thats my oppinion..

 

so keep investigating in any way you see fit! =)

cheers

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